captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer proctions >> woouff: good evening. i'm judyoodruff. the obama admistration rolls out new proposals to help mile class americans. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill onhe newshour tonight, would new tacredits for children w1 and the derly win over main street without losing wall street? >> woodruff: then, an aq update aftereadly bomb blasts hit hotels ibaghdad. >> ifillas threats and plots multiply around the world,ow rong is al qaeda? margaret warner pos that question to a former c.i. officer. >> the adverry is growing

in its o sophistication, running different typeof operations. and we hit them in certain areas, neutralize pability, they shift to other thgs. >> the latt from haiti whereas many a1 million p >> woodruff: the latt from haiti, where as ny aone million people a still homeless. ray suez is in port-au-prince, ere he talked with paul farmerthe u.n.'s deputy spial envoy, even as international donors mt in montreal to figure out h to help. >> ifill: d a fish story. tom arden reports on the battle against t invasive gianasian carp. >> they e biological terrists. and if theget in our great lake , and hit,mpact the ecology and econom two different canadian pvinces, itould cost billions. >> woodruf that's all ahead on tonight's "pbsewshour." mar funding r the pbs newshour is provided by:

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toyota. grt thornton. and the williaand flora hewlett foundation, woing to solve soci and environmental problems at home and around e world. and th the ongoing support of these institutions a foundations. and... this program was made possle by the corporaon for public broadcasting. and by contributions to yo pbs station from viewe like you. thank you. >> wdruff: president obama offered a smalpeek today at wh he'll say wednesday night in his state of the ion address. it was a n attempt to offer help to the cotry's long- strugglingiddle class. >> today's announcement was the president's latest effo to shift focus back to the economy and rapture

the political inittive. he aressed the middle class task force cired by vice president biden. >> we're going to keep fighting to rebuild our econy so that rd work is once ain rewarded, wages and incomes are once again rising, and the mile class is once ain growing. >> the propols include doubling the child ce tax creditor families earning less than $85,00a year. capping the size of studt loan rayments, increasing aid for families taking care of eerly relatives, and creating automatic retirement savings account at the workpce. >> theiddle class has been under assat for a long time. too many americans he known eir own painful receions long before any economts declared that there was recession. >> dcontent with the state of theconomy and 10% unemployme weighed heavily among voters in massachusetts last wk. and publican scott brown catalized, winning a

vacant u. senate seat and dealing a blow to the president's agenda. mr. obamhas since tried to address rising anger against wall street, prosing limits on the ze and scope of theiggest banks. and white use officials today called f a bipartan task force on cuttg the federal deficit, another issuthat has been hurting the president. >> tre is just this sense of anxiety, of frusttion, of anger, the eltorate is looking to take it o on somebody. >> last week it appeared the latestarget might be federal reserve chaian ben bernanke h been nominated for a send term. nate support appeared to erode ov his efforts to rescue the fancial system. but senate leade moved to tamp dowthe opposition ov the weekend. >> i believe that s confirmaon will be assure >> are you on the me page? >> i'moing to vote for him. >> republicaleader mitch mcconnell would not forell

his owvote but predicted bernan will get his second term. >> he is going thave have bipartisan supportn the sete and anticipate he wod be confirmed. >> wl you vote for him. >> will haveipartisan support. >> as bernke worked to rally support day, several more senators moved in to his column. >>'m going to support chairman bernanke's nomination. >> and white housepokesman robert gibb voiced optimm. >> this sends a sign to greater an overall stabili to havhis nominaon appred without political damage. and that is what we expect will hpen later this week. >> for now bernanke's improving prospects appear to help calm wall stet. the dow jones industrial average gained fearly 24 points to close near 10,00 one-- 10,197. it had fallen more than 40 pots last week. the nasdaq rose five pois today to cse above 2210.

>> for a >> woodruff: for closer look at t president's moves and messages to th main street and wall street, we get the viewof two econom thinkers. robert reich is ofessor of publicolicy at the university of california at berkeley. he served as secrery of labor undepresident clinton. and mart feldstein is pressor of economics at harvaruniversity and president emeritus at e national bureau of economic resear.6a- entlemen, thank yobatt for being with us. professor feldstn to you rst, if these initiatives the present announced today med at helping the middle class child care ta crit retirement savings accounts at the rkplace, and so fth, if these were enacted intoaw how much difference wou they make ? >> well, it wouldn't me much differencat all. i like the workpla retirement pn , automatic retirement iworkplaces, i think thatould make a big

differen-- . woodruff: professor, i'm ing to have to interrupt you, unfortunatey we're hang an audio problem here. we're going to g that fixed and come rig back to you. and while we do i am going to turn to professoreich. sameuestion, if these initiatiwere to become law, howuch would they help the middle clas >> judy, i thinkhey're all worthwle. th are small steps in the direction of helng the middlelass. i dot think anybody's sense of anxiety and unhappins and worry would be cnged dramatically. but doing su things as capping repaymentshat studen have to make when they are deeply indebted t student loan autrities with regards to thr llege loans, that could make a difference. helping with child carand with elder care, ain, all of theseould make a diffence. t not major differences. >> woodruff: n bond that, we know robert reichthe public wou love for the president to just crte millions of jobs. how much can hreally do in th direction?

>> not all that mu at this int, judy. the only thinghat really ll generate more jobs is a largertimulus. rit now the state government because constutional provisions prohit the states from running deficits, rit now thstates are runing what ght be calledn anti-stimus package in the nge of $350 billion this year and next. they are raising taxes, they are tting services, they are cuing jobs, and that is a huge fiscal drag onhe country right w. what the federal governmen could dowhat obama could do if had the votes, and of crse with scott brown there it is not clear he has the votes, butould be to he state and local governments righaway. thisould immediately help the situation. >> woouff: all right, martin, believe we have yoback, i hope so. we were askingi was asking about jobs. homuch can the president do, and how muchhould he do to help goo up job creation

>> well, i thinkhere are things he n do. and i would phasize two things. one is we've got to fithe situatn with the banks and the mortge loans, both the redential mortgage loans d the commercial real este. that stopshe banks from lending, and tt stops all and medium size businessesrom expanding and hiring pple. so the admistration should go back to that ise. >> woodruff: a in what way. i mean what exactlare you saying they should do. >> well, i think one of e key problems is that high loans to value ratios, meowners who owe more than their homes are wortare faulting. ose properties are being foreclosed. and there have bee suggestionand i've made suggestions that, abouhow the administration could deal with that problem,

could induce the credito to reduce their -- reduce their balances for those borrowers. but wee not seeing any progss in that direction at all. i think the other thing th administration needs to is to give people some coident that the very lae fiscal deficit that loom outhis year after year, are going toe brought under corol. and e kind of spending programs the ainistration has been doing forhe last year won't connue. >> woodruf well, let me turn to robert rch and ask him about those two poin, out moving to shore up hoowners in the way that martin feltein described and th what he just was descring about the deficit. >> judy, one simple way to he homeowners that are worried about foclosure would beo change the law and allow themo declare

bankruptcy, person bankrupt and personal bankruptcy with regard to debts on their first home mortgages. right now homeowners c do that, cabring their second homes intoankruptcy. theyan bring commercial real estate into bankrtcy. but th cannot under the law ing their first primary residees into bankruptcy. doing at would give meowners much more bargaing leverage with banks in terms o negoating better deals. wall street doesn't li this very mu. but if the obama ministration really wants to show e public that it is standing up twall street, and if congress is willing to do that, th would enormously helpful. as to professofeldstein's second point, i age completely that e adminiration has got to do something about lo-term decits. t short-term deficits are very, ve different. in fact, if ything, the administration shod not worry and yet amerans kind of make americans re confidenthat short-term defits may be actually necessary in order to t

people back to work d the economy growing again that lg-term deficits can get under contl. >> woodruff: mtin feldstein, l me ask you to reond to that. and i quickly want to ask you about at the president has been doing, gettin tougher on the b banks in the last few days. >> fiscal defici this year, 10 and 20011 are to the the problem. but 2015, 2018, the are years when we shouldn't be looking at lar deficits. anthe only way to deal th that is to bring spending uer control. d there we are not seeing anythi coming fr the ministration. >> woodruff: and what abt with regard to the measure the prident has been suggesting recently, basically puttg rerictions on the kind of business that the ggest bank s can do. >> that is certaly not ing to help. it's not going thurt very much either th business will g done. just won't get done in the banks.

and ift moves to nonbank institutions, to hedge fds and others, they're ing to be less supeised. and that can irease the risks in t system. i say what the psident is doing as an attempt to answer his ctics and say that he and secretary geithner and b bernanke have bn too kind to the banks, t kind to wall street. and so the presint is looking for ways to coterthat image. but it'seally an image crtion rather than substance that we're getti there. >> and robert reic i think you see this bk move, these nk moves differently. >>es, there should be no entityn the capitalist system, ju, that is too big to fail. and i thinit's necessary for the presidt to be very ear about resurrecting someing called the glass-steagall a which was a 1930s provion designed toeparate investment banking from cmercial banks so that invement banks essentially could t

use commercialeposits in e great casino called the stock market. well, 's moving in that direction. not quite there. paul volker's suggestion i noexactly that. but it ia move in the right direction. and as to allong regulators to basical set limits to thrisk and the size of banks, that is ao a step the right direction. i thk i would prefer to go a little bit further a use the anti-trust lawto make sure that no large financi institions got simply too large, thathey were, in efct, too big to fail. >> woodruff: at a timeike this, martin feldste, how do you describe the presidt's obligation to do something for odamericans, for the midd class. versus or and in aition to, mang it possible for the banks another businesses to do the kindf open business that th want to ntinue to do. >> theare really quite separate issues. and again i would y that whethethe major banks, the

investment banks, get do proprietary trading or tt moves mewhere else in the economy is really not a significant issue in terms of what really mattershich is bringing the employnt numbers ba up. there ar 15 million americans who are out of work. there are 9 milln more who are on srt time this are a couple million more o have given up looki because they don't think the are jobs. and none of these initiave its de at all with that oblem. >> woodruff: and to at extent is the presiden obligad to do that. you are ying that should be a chief obligatn? >> wl, i think that's critical. i think we see tt the fed has done everything at it n possibly do. and i thk what is holding back is thatmall and gional banks around the cotry are afraid to lend, unwillg to lend because of

the prlem of commercial and sidential real estate. anbusinesses are afraid to make commitments becse they fear that the project fiscal deficits argoing to lead to higher interest rates anhigher taxes on business. and the president's an-business rhetoric certnly doesn't reassure them. and robert reich, how do you come dn on that? >> well, i don'think businesses are reluctant t invest because they woy abt future deficits. i think sisses are reluctant to inves judy, because theyon't see customerout there and there arno customers out ere for many businesses cause people are so scared. th are losing their jobs. and their wages arfrozen, essentially, or many are settling for lower wages and is gets back to, basically, whether youant a short te stimulus or not. i thinwe do need a short term stimulus. i ha given you my best suggestion as tohat that shoulde. that is help for ste and local governments t there are othethings that can be done the point is

that john-- being john keys, his theos from the 1930s are being exhumed. about what we ne to do en there are no other real sources of demd in the system. consumers have pled back. investors have pulled back. exports cannot be reliedn. the only remaining ber of last resort ishe governme. woodruff: gentlemen, we thank bout, martin feldstein robe reich. >> thanks, judy. >> thanks. >> ifill: w, the other news of the day, here's ha sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivas: an ethiopian airlines pla crashed early th morning just off beirut, lebanon. 90 peoe were on board, but there wano sign of survivors. the boeing 737 caught re and plunged in the mediterranean sea minus after taking off. plane debris washeup on shore, d search and rescue crews recovered at least 21 boes. investigators said stormy weather could haveeen a factor inhe crash. banese president michel leiman said there was no sig that trorism was involved. in iraq, baghdad was hit ba series of bombgs on the same

day that a notorious henchman saddam hussein w executed. we have a report narrated lindsey hilsum oindependent telesion news. >> tee suicidear bombs in baghdad today. all targetedt hotels where foreigne stay. the bombers di't get right inde. bustill managed to kill mo than 30 people and injure 70 others. reporter: neighboring houses are were bln apart. fireghters helping suivors to safety. as iraq heads tords electionin early march, such attacks are eected to coinue or inease. the americans y the perpetrators are probablal qaeda in iraq, largely sunni grp supported by some members osaddam hussein'now banned ba'ath rty. today one of the most notorious ba'athists, beer

knn as chemical ali was hanged. a judge read the sentence week ago. >> thanks be to god, he responded. it was his fourth deat senten for genocide and crimes against humanit iraqi ar video was used as evidencen court. here he seen presiding over the abuse oshi'a prisers captured during the upsing in 1991 which follow the invasion of kuwait. he gainehis nick name after commandi the chemic gas attack on t kurdish town i1988 during the iran-iraq war. unsurprisingly ithat town today, the news of his haing nearly seven areas after s capture was greeted with approval. >> we the families of ma tirs here arvery pleased hear that he was executed. reporter: but in tikrit, the hometown

of cmical ali and saam hussein tribal loyals. >> i give condolences to the iraqpeople on the martyrdom of ali hasan al-mid who was sassinated by traitors. >> reporter: today's explosion shows that iraq is still volati. maybe more so since e predominantly shi'a government barred ny sunni candidat from standing in the cong elections. the contrasting acts to day's execution shows how divided iraq remains. as it struggleto overcome the legacy of diatorship, invasion and war >> sreenivasan: there was w talk today of reconciling afghanistan's governnt with taliban fighte. president hamid rzai said he wantto let militants lay down their weapons and goome, so long as ey are not affiliated with al qaed karzai ske in istanbul, turkey, three da before an internional conference on afghanisn in london. said gathering internationa

support was key. in the past, this effort by the afghan government did t have the backi or the support of ournternational partners. th current effort, this renewed effort, i shou say, has the backing of o partners, in parcular the united states and eupe. >> sreenivasan: at t same time, the natoommander in afghanistan said he pes an influx of oops will force taliban aders to accept peace. general stanley mcchrystal suggested former tiban could even join the govement. he said, "i think any afghan can play a role if they fos on the futu, and not the past." also today, nato officials announced two more sdiers-- one british, one norwegian have been killedn bombings in afghanisn. the u.s. milary will speed up a revi of more than 4,300 iraq and afghistan veterans. they were diharged with post- traumatic stress disorde or p.t.s.d., betwn 2002 and 2008. seven veteransave filed a

class action lawit. they claim the mility illegally denied benefits those scharged with p.t.s.d. viceresident biden's son will not run for his father old u.s. sate seat in delaware. in ae-mail, beau biden told supporters he plans toeek reelection astate attorney genel instead. that leaves republican congressman mi castle, a former two-term governor, witht a democratic opponent. general motors made whitacre itpermanent c.e.o. today. he had filled thjob on an terim basis since december, en the automaker's boa oust fritz henderson. whitac is also g.m.'s chairman, but he said toy he had not expeed to take on the job of permanent c.e.o. i certainly didn't come int this with that intenti. but as so often happens,ou get in the middle of somethingand you start to like the ople, you makeeadership changes, feel comfortableith them, feel optistic about the future. you sortf get pulled in.

>>reenivasan: new c.e.o. whitacre also said tay g.m. will repay the more than $8 billn the company owes the u.s. and canadian governnts in ju. those are some of e day's main stories. i'll be back at the end ofhe program with a previ of what yoll find tonight on the wshour's web site. but fonow, back to judy. >> woouff: and still to come onhe newshour, the state of the qaeda organization and the bale against a giant fish. >> ifill: that follo our date on haiti, where the relief workersre still laboring to get help to alwho need i newshour correspondent kwa holman begins our covege. >> nrly two weeks after the earthquake htian survors are struggling just to find a pla to sleep. the united nation its w reports nely one million people have been left homeless that's one of evy nine haitians. there artwo few tents and not nearly enough safe buildings. as u.s. air drops contin

day and night, the u. also says food aid hareached half a million peoplbut twmillion are in need. and qutions continue about how we the aid effort is working. a crew from indendent televisi news spotted this convoy at one camp. some grew angry they were asked to complete itten forms even though many cld t read or ite. a few sacks of rice were unloaded before the n. troops grew concerneabout the crowds and ordered the food reloaded and iven away. >> our hse is crumbling. were hungry and there is nothing to do. we found thi take it. >> hunger and angehave fuel more looting in portu-prince as this crowd today scoud for whatever food they could nd. but whilthe fight for pplies continues so did the burial of thdead. the governnt said the count has reached $15000 bodies but thousands more ill could be under the rubble. this cple picked through

what's lt of their home to find the by of their son. >> he is our firstorn, our esh and blood. we want to bury him, n haveim rot under the bble. >> the search r survivor its ofcially is over but on saturday is man emerged from aollapsed building 11 day its after the ake. >> iant to tell the rescue people not to st, not to give up beuse they can findeople like me. coy have survived nger, other two or three days under the rubble. maybe ere are more peoe ive and they can fine them. >> still, haitn auorities now are focused on the survors urging them to leave therecked capitol. so far chartered bushave evacuated mo than 200,000 fugees to the countryside. near half of those have ne to the north, a city that wasecimated by back-to-ba hurricanes in 2008. even so, ethquake survivorsaid they had little choice. >> i lost erything and the

situation ere is not good. here it isot very good either but i wilstay until we see what happens down there. >> reporter: ithe meantime, far from the scenes of destruction, world leade met in montreal today to collaborate on haiti's recovery. >> ifill: after the meetg ended this afternoon, secrary of state hillary clinton announced the u.s. wl host an internional donors conference at u.n. headquarters inew york in march. amonthose participating today was paul farmer, a u. official with long ties to hai. ray suarezpoke with him before he left for e meeting in >> paul farmers the united naons deputy special envoy to haiti. in that capaty, his boss is former presidt bill clinton. farmer has been woing in medicine in hai for more than two decades. we caut him at the port-au-prince airport on his way to a donor's conference in montreal. >> hi, how are you dng. >> he says. the number one jobow nor haiti's injud thousands is

coornating the delivery of servicesrom throngs of volueers. >> coordination is very difficult as i'm sure you've seen alrea. there are manyolume canized groups trying do good that it is very difficult for thgovernment or the u.n. or any ganization to coordinate them. and then i said livery because iteems to me having worked here a lg time tt delivery is always a stumbing point. >> suarez: those people e here as part oa sort of international gush of goodll towards haiti in its tragedy. do you let that energy rol to takadvantage f people land with a mobilenit and want to starfixing people up, do you let that go on. it's a tough call. mean i would be relauck tent. i'm not an ahorized spokespeon for the haitian people. but i think e of the things i have heard fromy frie its and coworkers who are haitian, we cat afford

to be turning-- buing, you kn, gestures of goodwill right now. so i thi in a way you are obliged to let that sh of goode will flow. it's not easy. it's not pleasant ani'm sure it's ve frustrating fopeople who have been here a long time or people who are really trying to coordinate. but i dot see how you can say u know, go away. what you have to do is say look, let'plan this out. this not somhing that is going to bover in two or the weeks or two or three months. this rebuilding, you know, you've been all the places i've been, rebuilding it i going toake many, many yes. and in thehort term we've got to, you know, focus on so immediate needs as well. so i as difficult as it is, i don't think that we're i a position to beejecting goodwill. >> suarez: tre are now thsands of people who are in medical ter, on differenbut parallel acts. people whoeed another week of treatment. ople who need another two months of treatment. anpeople who need another

year of treatment. how do you meet all those needs at the same time wit such a degraded infrastructure? >> wel it's a very-- it is a big allenge. and i will just go tough each one of ose very briefly. the short-term nd s, the acute needs,or example, amation or debridement of a wound, those are in a wa the easier this to do. but then comes, you know you have to have psthesis, you haveo have wound care. and in the first coue of da as i'm sure you've heard, we y to focus our efrts. and president clintodid this as well, on traum oropedic, you know, the needs of people who re injured in the eventin the earthquake but now we're gog to have to have rehamedicine, a lot bett post-op nursing.

the real challenge wl be reilding here in port-au-princend further south. you foe you are going to ve to have a massive rebuilding of public hlth infrastructu now. hospitals,linics, health pos. d that's going to require significant investnt of capital. man capital, but it's going to create lots of bs, rebuilding that. those safeospitals and safe schools, i ink, you know, we have to ao regard that as a chce to create jobs. those are what areeeded mostare jobs. >> suaz: let's talk about the chance created by th terrible moment haiti's history. there no long tradition of competent, cari, efficient provision gornment services in this country. sotarting from scratch eates some opportunities to right some past wngs, and end up with somethin better at the d. >> well, you know, as yo probab have heard already, i've been workg with presidenclinton the last

sevel months, working with the u.n.. 's the special envoy for haiti. unfortately many of the people we' working with perished in the earthquake d it is his, president clinton's view, that thais exactly what we shld be doing. that we shld... you know, he taught me somhing in 2008he used this pression, i guess after the tsami about building back better. and i just asked him, wh does that mean. there weren't initutions in the first place. d he said just what you sa, you know, you have to seizthis moment to start a fresh. and you know, givet a new try. and i thin people... better min than mine who know things beyd health care and medicine belie that now is a time rethink public infrastructure. rethink the city. as you have seen, you can' ve two, three million people living, you know, i such a densely packed area. i can't imagine that peoe

are going to want to rebuild port-au-prin in the same way it was, which is to sa this sprawling, unanned, you know, city so that why i'm leaving haiti and ing into montreal with no coat toy. is because i think the are a lot of people meetin or a group of key people meeting to talk out how we can build back better. maybe i just have to leave in-- belie in that message to kind of get thrgh the next few months. suarez: what's the pitch when youo to montreal? how do you tnk the-- keep thworld engaged and understaing that this is a longerm front? >> i don't kw but we're all ing to try. especially those of us w have been enged in haiti for a long time. we're going toave to be very explicit that transnt interest in this problem is noonly unhelpful but very destructive. and that's what weave had to date. there a wave of interest, ere is a crisis. and ople pay attention. ere a crisis and people pay attentn from outside. if you are a trauma sueon, i think it's just fine tha you feel gooafter you get back on the ane.

you know, that's wt we ask the orth pedtrianists and hers who are helping us now, tt is what we want them to dois come in, inteene. i think they can go, and those who are rking with them w clean conscience. t the rest of us, you know, who are inlved in other projec, rebuilding the healthare infrastructure, thinking with about education, thinking abt econic development, even tourism, we cannotave this, you know, tranent interest. have to get that message out. >> suarez: wn asked about a successful emple of the kind of rebuildinge's prescribed for haiti, dr. farmer has a ready swer. rwanda, torn by genode and vil war, now stable and even sending aid to hai. he's recommending a ten-ar rebuilding program for haiti >> ifill: now we beginhe first

in a series of cversations about the evolvi nature of al qaa. margaret warner has thstory. luis ruedapent 28 years in the ci mostly as an agent d station chief in the field, includi in the middle east and uth asia. his last assignment was dwep tee rector for counterintellince at the cia's counterterrorism center. where he dlt with double agent operations and secuty. heetired on january 1st on the heels of theoiled christmaday airliner plot and the deadlyouble agent attack oa remote cia tpost in afghanistan. i spoke to him earlier today at his home capitol hill a. thank u for being with us. >> thank you for havinme. >> warner:sama bin laden or a voice sayg he was osama bin laden th weekend iled the christmas day bomb attempt, the same attack that al qae had already taken crit for. now one, do you believe th is oma bin laden, but more importantly what-- if so, what does is a about how al qda is operating today? >> it's always hd to

identify whether it him or not. but as far awe know there has never en a false osama bin laden tape. so t odds are that it probably is him. i think wh it tells us about al qaedas that we are now fang a more decentralid, flexible orgazation. al qaeda central will ta claim, will take cdit for ceain things. it ds not really mean that they had dly command and control an the operation or execute it. is probably likely that itid originate in yemin-- yen but the fact that al qaeda does provide a moral and litical center for all these groupsllows them to ta credit for it. >> warr: now if we then add the jordann double agent suicidbombing which seven cia offers, former colleagues were kill, what does that tell us about al qaa's capabilities today? >> i thinkt tells us the sa thing. these types of dble agent erations tend to be fairly soisticated. it requires a go degree of planning and mental

execution. shows us that the adversary is growing in its own soistication. running fferent types of erations. and as we hit them in certainly areas, as neutralize capable, they itch to over things. >> warner: the facthat they were running counterintelligence agency against e u.s., is this new for them. >> when alaeda started out its rrorist activity their intel again operations nded to be tactical collection operation, on a target trying to find out timings. these typef double agent operatio are level above at. what we are seeing now is growing sophiscation, at least the intelligence realm of t enemy. it also shows, ihink, that we are as a government, as an agency having an pact on them because it is forcing them to striket whathey perceive as some 6 their main emies. >> warner: have theyried this sort of thingefore, sendina false agent or lunteer? >> we have only seen a degree of bad case cases against us, hardo tell whether it was bad from e beginning when they

voluntred or they turned bad. we see theophistication but this think is on a level a little b above that, where there was very clear plan to take actn against that fility. so i thi this is probably a little more seous. >> warner: n bruce rydell, so a forme cia officer said late la week, once you understa the enemy is runnincounterintelligence again u, you have to ask how manyf our other assets aren't who we think they are. do you think tt is a danger. >> that always a danr. think it is a danger that the agency is very well aware of. it does end a lot of time reviewing the cases, vetng the ses. and can guarantee you they are doing thatight now, reviewing all cas to see who is good, who is bad, what the signs are. the prlem is we're engaged in a war. and at no time in ybody's history have y won every ngle battle against an adversary. every w and then they will win one. they will get one throh. we c't guarantee a hdred percent secuty. we understanthat.

that is the risk we ta. >> so if you take these tw recent attacks, if you take other things had they have been doing this pastear, do y think al qaeda is stronger oweaker than it was five years ago. >> i think it is, again on these things that it is not a clear-cut answer iis one of the unsatfying answers. clearly al qaeda is aker in itsommand and control and sophisticated erations, the types weaw in 9/11. the types we s where they tried toomb five airliners ming in from great britan. they have been weaked in that area. but they havalso adapted and grown into sophistication and thing ke counterintelligence and intelligence orations. you can e that the biggest threat right now is within afghanistan. they are feeling the pai they are feeling the hur ey are trying to survive. the christmas boing, while dangerous also shows tha one half ass operation can cause significant dage. but it was an operation at denstrated a lack of exrtise and professionism what we had

become accustomed to with ala. so the answer is bot >>arner: now how good are we? >> i thk... again, i want to be... iwill look like i'm biased but i think we' very good at meeting t thres, identifying what the threats are going to b the issue ist is a race against ti, so to speak in that the adversary shifts and changes. and we tend to catch uvery quickl we shod be in a position whe we can anticipate what the changes are before theyet there. such as identifying whicof the next tr of countries al qaeda is gog to try to estaish a presence. we know yemen is a problem. >> we shld be looking at where they wilbe going. al qaeda tends to shift to countries whe there is a degree of chaos. whe there is able to stride iwith limited contl. so we need to be anticipati that. >> are you saying th the tre craft in the u.s. as it is known, in the intelligence agencys is od

but is still not adaing fast eugh. >> i thi the trade craft is very good f what we are doin but it needs to apt ickly. i-- . >> warner: is it in. >> i think it is, but times it's like most things. at tes we adapt very ickly. we put it into place and at ceain times the adversary may have chang their trade craft themselves we've got to match telephone. it's like a pingong match. >> aduto: so-- . >> warner: so do we have a handle on this evoluti, how al qaeda a is pting, are we adapting to meet it >> time sometimes we areut sometimewe are not. al qaeda is more decentralized and sophisticated. we at times becomeixated on certain issues like tting osama bin laden. that is an importa part of it. but it tends to be more a justicissue, of a revenge issue, and dling a moral blow or blow to the morale of the emy. t is not the end all, be all t will notolve our problem. are faced with a global

kour insurgency and we have to deal with it othat level with a hosof tools, not just intelligence and military, important ashey are, but socia economic infoation et cetera. >> warner: do you ink at times we a too focused on getting othetop leaders? >> i think we do >> warr: or is that actuallyery useful. >> it is useful. but at times ibecome it's the end-al be-all, almost as if we wanto declare an victory if we get one, twoo three indivials that will not give us ctory it is important how we dine victory and for mehat is creating stability andn an areas where the people can't thve and grow. if y are fighting a unterinsurgency you have toeny the population to the enemy. and that beces the most imrtant part. not just securing th population, but deing their support and goodwi. >> warner: youescribe it almost like a cancerhat then sprouts up, takes rt in other areas >> it is like a canc. >> woodruff: . >> warner: wre is another ea we are not paying ough attention to. >> it is hard to aicipate. i could see sub sahhar r africa becomg a problem. are paying tension but it

becomes a resour issue. e intelligence community doesn't have the resoues to hit everything wi the full trening it was to, we are commited with afghanistan anpakistan. we are becoming heily coitted into yemen. you can see commitme into somaa but there is a point where the system begins to say weust don't have ough resources. and part of thsolution to thproblem is devoting enough rources to the end. >> warner: you are sing that r now al qaeda really still has the momentum. >> al qaeda is developing momentum. you can seit coming. theyere on the defensive for e longest time. they have us ed the time t survive and begin to recupete. the reat of al qaeda in yemeis growing. the chaos somalia signifant and it's still a problem. so they are using th and they are starting to delop the momentum i am not ready to y they have the initiative yet. but if we don't stophem, they will. >> warner: so how ma years do you think we're gng to be athis? >> wel unfortunately, unlesshere a dramatic change, at least ten o15 years, may more. this is t a problem that is wonasily it is not an

enemy that is defeated easily. 's not meeting armies on a field of battle ancrushing them. this has become social movement. that's aroblem. movents are difficult to defeat. >> warr: luis rueda, thank you. >> thank you for hing me. >> margaret gets a differe view fm a former cia agent >> woodruff: margaret ge a different view from a rmer c.i.a. age later this week. >> ifill: next, very big fish storabout the battle among midwestern states over arowing threat to e great lakes ecystem. newshour correondent tom bearden report big one, big one. >> reporter:hese are the invars. large sh that leap high out of the water whe distushed. they are cald asian carp. the chese have been gring them for food for a thousand years. but to americans, they a an iasive species, destroyinghe habitat of native fisin the mississippi river and s tribuy tears, all the wa from the gulf of mico to chicago. the fear that they will do thsame to the great lakes has set state against state with michigan filing st along with fivother great

ke states to force linois and the federal gornment to stop these fish in their tracks >> this is a big head rp right here, anthis is a littleuy. i have colcted them on the illinois riv where they easily are twicehat length, theyould weigh upwards upwards-- upwas of 50 pound its, ty will eat probablyalf their body weight in plkton ef erie da >> eating that much plankton scares jim robin rhe, vice president of animal regulation at e shed aquarium in chicago. ankton consist oseveral species ofiny plants and animals in the water. they a the foundation of the entire food chain. >> it is an issue that is a potential time bomb, iould say. it would he a devastating affect on the great lakes if the asian carp we to get there and be able to reproduce inuge numbers. it could wipe out the upwas of $7 billion fish ree in the gat lakes by justutcompeting all the sirable fish. >>eporter: 125 miles across the le in muskegen

michigan, commercial fishermen is worried t carp could destr his business. hepent decades trying to cope with e more than 180 invasivepecies already in lake michigan. >> im quite certain that the commercial fishing business in michigan, and in all the grt lake states has be driven down by the invasivepecies arrival. because keeps changing the me. and fisherman are aptive creatures, you know, but the adaptions cost mey and time and creatbig issues. and we g worried about the next one juslike the carp. >> reporter: one path for invasive species was t chicago sataree and ship cal, hail as an engineerinmarvel when the ty opened it in 1900, the nal reversed the flow of the chicago river d established a waterlink between lake michigan and the ssissippi river system. the canal made chicago an importt port and it also carried sewa away from the ci. to stothe carp from using the canal to enter lake

michigan, e u.s. army corps ofngineers built an underwater electric barrie in 2002. a cond larger installation followed. and a third is plann. >> dna found here are both kinds of carp. both kinds of rp found here. >> reporter:ut when small traces of rp dna showed up beyond the barriers, michigan attornegeneral mike coxsked the supreme court to order chicago to close e locks that link the river to the lake. >> there are ecologic and onomic dangers to the great lakes. and quite mply, they are biological terrorist. and if they get inur great lakes and t-- impact the ecology and the econy of ght different states, two differt canadian provinces, it could cosbillions. >> repter: on tuesday the court issued a o sentence statement denying michan's request to immediatelylose the locks. while the prelimary injunction was died, cox says the supme court could

orr the larger case back to a lower court, appoint a special master to ovsee a settlement or order the waterwayo be permanently closed. henry henderson rks for the natural resours defense council that suppted michigan's lawsuit. hendern says thenly real solution is to physicay wall off the le from the river as it was the 17th centur >>he barrier has not been adequate. it never h been adequate. and it'sot going to be equate. th are going to be very, very hard to eracate. and we, i think wean't eradicate them. th is why we need to fire out and institute a permanent barrier so they don't geinto the great las. >> i was amad this morning how many salt truc were lined up >> reporter: but john d dell who run bar companies say closg the locks would destroy their indust. >> well, the first thing i that it uld put us right out business. if we don't have barge coming through the lks, we don't have anyctivity at all. >> on the icago san itaree ship canal system whicwe are standingight in front

of, 16.9illion tons move through that system. if you equate at to trucks, that is 1.3 million truckloads. and close to 2 some odd thousand rail cars the inastructure in this area couldn't handle that kind of capaci overnight. >> reporter:ohn even doubts whether closi the lockwould accomplish ything. >> witregard to the locks, you know, thlocks are not necessarily designed tbe watertight. i mean they come throu, th hold water but they are all desied to leak a little bit. so that may t be the fective method, if they do choo to close the locks. >> the walls are like thre feet thick. >> reporter:ick is the executive director othe meopolitan water reclamation distct of greater chago. the agency that separate the canal system. he says the court orders the locks closed in e future, thousands of hom would flooduring a severe orm. the metro train tracks wld be underwater. sewage wou back up in thousands of bements.

our last big storm was in september 2008. we h nine inches of rain across the who chicago area. we ended up scharging 11 billion gaons of water to lake michigafor flood relief. >> reporter: so these ar not rarewe kurnss. >> these a not rare. reporter: in terms of flooding they've only hato open any of the locknine times since 1995, the past 25 year in our padings we don't ask the sueme court not to allow them to open the locks for flding. obviously want a prision in the order for that. we're trying to beminently reasonab. >> reporter: paul jensen rries that while the states battle it out in court, businses like his ght get eaten alive. >> well, we' obviously the sml guys. but whetr we are going to get eateby chicago, i don't know. if they would eat our fi, we would be happier. >> reporr: on tuesday the army corps of engineers announced it had fou traces of carp dna in lake michigan itsf, indicating the sh may have already reached the lake. but scientists sayhat

doesn't necessarily an that a breeding populati has been estlished. yet. >> obama administration >> ifill: obamadministration ofcials plan to meet with midwest gornors next month about the carp iss. >> woodruff: finally tight , a coming tether of journalism and music arou the world. one example comes from rusa where thmost popular political song since the falof the soviet union is called "a ma like putin." the song is about the countrs prime ministernd former president. e story of the producers and the performers who made happen is told ia new pbs program. here's an excerpt. the reporter ialexis bloom. >> in putin's russ moscow is city of bright lights and glamor. however avy-handed putin may be, has presided ov an era of relative stability and prosperity. and he remains verpopular . >> imoscow's glittering

night, it's all about enjoying the moment. thkaraoke clubs are packed. and they're stl playing that same old tune .-x 7 ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ . >> reporr: this night was a reunion. yana and irenea omised to take the sge for us and sing the song at made them famous. >> practically the song of a generation. in 30 years they will make movie abt the putin era and they wilremember the song. >> reporter: a yellin, the old rock 'n' roll dissidt says he has no regts.

the song became the anem fothe again railings. i am a professional. i can write whatever y want. if iere asked to write an anti-putin song by som foreign intelligenceervice i uld do it for the money. and then i would laugh because a song like that doest have a future. there is no mark right now for a song that criticizes putin. it is futile to criticize puti . >> that >>oodruff: that story and others can be seen tight on "sound tcks: music without borders" on most pbstations. >> ifill: ain, the major developments of the day. esident obama offered new initiatives to help thmiddle class. an ethiopianirlines plane crhed early this morning, just off beirut, lebanon. 90 people were on boar but

there was noign of survivors. >> sue sigh bomber in baghdad killedt least 37 iraqis. the newsur is always online. hari sreenivasan, in our newsroom, previe what's there. hari? >> our haiti covere continues with web dispahes from ray suez and extended excerpts from our ierview with paul farmer, who iselping coordinateedical efforts in port-au-prince on art beat, haitian-amecan poetatrick sylvain reads "port of sorrows" written ter the eahquake. there's also an date on venezuelan president hug chavez's moves to jumpstarhis country's ecomy by devaluing e currency. thatomes from michael shifter of the inter-americadialogue. and find out about o experimental sta of the union project. and that's the newshour for tonit. i'm judy woouff. >> we'll see you on-li, and

again here torrow evening. thank you and od night. major funding for the pbs wshour is provided by: the national scien foundation.

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